From Jamaica to Queens NY, Irwine Clare Is Never Far from Home

What's going on in Jamaica? In this episode, we get the scoop from our guest Irwine Clare, Sr., the co-founder and managing director of the New York-based Caribbean Immigrant Services, Inc. and a radio host whose show on IrieJam radio is a staple for Jamaican immigrants.  Irwine Clare is a man on a mission to help new immigrants from the Caribbean find their feet and to inspire young people to actively participate in public life to change their communities for the better. Clare speaks frankly on a variety of topics ranging from the future of Jamaica with young people at the helm, the Trump Administration's immigration policies and its impact on Caribbean immigrants, Black Lives Matter, and the youth movement, as well as Vice-President-Elect Kamala Harris. 

Transcript

Irwine Clare 

Moronke:  In this episode, we're talking to Irwin Clare, senior. He is the co-founder and managing director of the Queens. New York-based Caribbean immigrant services, inc. An organization that mobilizes and empowers Caribbean nationals living in the United States. Irwine and his partner, attorney Winston Tucker have established themselves as major community advocates on immigration reform and issues relevant to the Caribbean community. In fact, they are so influential that, they're frequently described as the people in the know everybody knows Erwin Claire from what I hear,  Mr. Clara is also a much sought after public speaker. Who's been invited to speak on college campuses at churches, civic and community organizations throughout the country. He is also the founder and CEO of Team Jamaica, Bickle, which for the past several years has worked with community organizations and businesses to host athletes from Jamaica [00:01:00] and the Caribbean participating at the world-renowned Penn relays and the list goes on, but you also know him as, a radio host. let's talk about that a little bit later, but I want to welcome, when Claire, it is a pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you. 

 Irwine:  Thank you very much, doc. And it's, it's my privilege. I'm looking forward to this and, to discuss issues that are pertinent to our community. And, thank you for it. You do as well. 

 Moronke: [00:01:30] I am so glad to be associated with you because as I said, folks says anyone who knows anyone knows Erwin Claire. Okay. So you are the man. so tell us, who is Erwin Claire? The man of the people who was he, 

Irwine: [00:01:45] That's a question that has been posed to me on several occasions. And, I have become confident in answering that question because of my humble beginnings and where I'm from. I [00:02:00] was born in, in a country village town village rather. called Bamboo in the great parish of Saint Ann in Jamaica. And I say great parish because that parish is, was also, is also the birthplace of a couple of notables. Pan-Africanist Marcus Garvey, World-renowned reggae artist, Robert Nesta Marley. and the list goes on. And I was also place in there too, my mother because it is from my mother that I have received the wherewithal to where I'm today. And to be involved in the activities that I am involved in, many folks have asked me, why haven't I, pursue the entrepreneurial or the business side of things. My mother. was involved in the social aspect of life. my mother was an early childhood educator who built the first basic school in our community, who established the first library in our community. I remember when. Telephones came to our section of the country, She was instrumental in having the first telephone booth and telephone establish. She was in the building society, the Jamaica, agricultural society, the forage club in politics, and as an only child for her. I was always with her.  and I stayed up late at night to fall asleep in the chairs in the corner, but it was my mother who migrated to the United States back in the late sixties, 1969 thereabout. And I was a join her several years later. and My, as far as w Erwin Claire is, has been defined by my mother, as, she has always said to me that if I'm in a position to [00:04:00] help someone, then I have an obligation and that has been my mantra throughout my life. And, I thank her for that. And, when I look at the things I'm involved in now,  I'm in a happy space.

[00:04:15] I love what I do. I love to help and work with people. And I'm a contented man. I may not have lots of money in the bank, but I consider myself a rich person for having worked with wonderful people and hearing the stories of families were doing well. That to me is I'm gratified by that. 

Moronke: [00:04:38] it seems like you have more than just the foundation. it seems like you were literally, raised into that kind of service. 

Irwine: [00:04:46] it was clearly the village raising the child here. and, is that it's still a concept? I pass onto my children and I try to live as well and preach. as part of our empowerment process, being an only [00:05:00] child and growing up with grandparents, because my mom left me at a young age. it meant that early on in my life, I had to make decisions on my own. but, I'll have to say that I had some significant foundations, my head, as they say in Jamaican vernacular, my head was screwed on.

[00:05:17]I made mistakes, right. But there was a different calling for me and I was really happy with that. That was a student leader in high school. when Michael Manley, the then prime minister back in the seventies, democratize student councils and allow for more student participation at all level at the decision-making process, I was privileged to be one of the first to be so elected. as student council president, I then went on to Tara HSA institution where I was also involved there and, representing students, on overseas missions. it's all part of my upbringing, politics. I've always enjoyed [00:06:00] politics for the people. Yes. and ensuring that people's representation is held at its highest level in a responsible and respectful manner. And, that's carried me through to the United States and, coming to the United States, I must tell you that it was a mixed emotion for me because, yeah, in my radical youth, in my radical youth, I would have detested courted quote, what the United States would have stood for back in the seventies and to come to the United States. It was not only culture shock. But it was also, a real test. And furthermore, I came to the United States and worked in the financial industry, which is an antithesis to what I preached back in the day.

But what I draw from that, and what I learned from that was I know, knew how to pay for the revolution. I considered myself, con revolutionary in pinstripe blue [00:07:00] because I had an appreciation that in order to get things done, you must have the resources. And that's why the whole empowerment process started. I don't believe in handouts. I don't believe in people getting things where they did not contribute to, or make effort to participate. because when you are involved in things that are of importance to you, there's a stronger value. There's stronger respect. And in fact, it is also more sustainable. So those are the tenets that drive me today. 

Moronke: [00:07:36] That's very interesting because when you started talking about your mother on the environment, it seemed like you were a natural politician in the making, but. You didn't go that route. no, you was that deliberate?

Irwine: [00:07:51] Listen, I'm also a creature of literature.

Moronke: [00:07:54] Okay. 

]Irwine: [00:07:55] And I think, one of Shakespeare's plays if my memory serves me. I prefer to be a Kingmaker because Kings get beheaded. I choose not to be beheaded, but I feel that my contributions are more effective of, of when we say now, creating the environment, providing the services to make happen. being part of the working crew to augment the process. Yeah. that's where I feel. I'm more effective. 

Moronke: I see. like behind the scenes working to make things happen? 

Irwine: yes. Yes. some will say that lacking in eloquence, allow my work to be my eloquent representative.

Moronke: [00:08:40] Oh,  there's no lacking in eloquence here. You're also a radio host. There was absolutely none of that. So I'm not even, I'm not even buying that one, but I know what you're saying. You said something that was very interesting, about, having the resources to be able to move ahead, to achieve your goal, you use the word revolution, but to achieve your goal. Yes. And, w one of the things that we're seeing, now, and I'm hoping that it will change. This and you have two, two kids, correct?

Irwine: [00:09:14] Yes. are they older? Yes. Yes. They're on their voters too. Especially my daughter. she understands the system is very, as I said, have her head on her shoulders.

Moronke: [00:09:24] Do you find that today's kids though resist that notion of, earning, what you. What you need to be able to get ahead. Even when we have nothing. and I see this as someone in the education system, even when we have nothing, there is still, and I'm talking about, children, kids of color.

[00:09:47]when I say kids, I'm talking about. you know what I'm talking about? The young adults, there was still this sense of, entitlement. I want this and I want this now. what, if I have to work [00:10:00] too hard for this, then it's not worth it, but I'm in the same school of thought that you are, that. When we work for it, then there is greater respect and appreciation, not just, of what we achieved, but also of self. Yes. And the fact that you're able to, Deal with the obstacles and still come up because we're faced with obstacles at every turn. Indeed. do you see that as, a challenge with some of the young people that you meet? Cause I'm sure you come into contact with, a lot of young people, on speaking engagements and stuff. what's your, what kind of response have you?

Irwine: [00:10:41] Sure. let's put some things in perspective. the generation. The that we're in the know generation, which has also has impacted even people like myself too. We are almost been being led into that scenario that we wanted, music gets on. and I, and let me use an example.  I go to Jamaica pretty often.

Moronke: I heard every other month or something.

Irwine: Yes. and one of the things that when I go home and I enjoy going home is that. I find myself walking too fast. I find myself almost impatient with the lines not moving. Yes. All right. Those are lenient aspects of the total, but when you think about it, it tells you that this society here is driving you so hard that if I press this button. Things must be, must respond instantaneously. There's a time, we use the write letters and wait for a response.

[00:11:40] Oh no. Okay. Okay. Okay. Old people write letters, kid. There was a post office doesn't like delivering them, but there was a time that was it. So we're in society today. We're in the know. So yes, I can understand why young people are like that, but what I've also known and. I was the live, this and experienced this. And I'll use my kids as examples. My daughter, my son stayed at home and went to college here in New York. And I think the environment of comfort of home, provided him on the entitlement pathway. So his emancipation from home took a little longer. to the impatience of his father.

[00:12:28] Meanwhile, my daughter who studied, out of state, she who, and is younger, she became more independently affluent earlier because of the conditionalities in which she was in. And this is where I tell you that your environment has a significant way of conditionalizing you. All right. Coupled with of course, what you would have gone into it with, [00:13:00] because if you do not go in with some firmness, then it can also take you over the precipice. So here was my son. My son got his degree was at home and he feels he has to experiment with stuff because he has the comfort of a fallback option.

[00:13:15] Yes. All right. There's all done on the table. Now, my daughter, she studied out just out of state she's independent. She went, when she got her car, she figured she got her apartment. She figured out the lease, all that kind of stuff. To the extent where now, she's in a position where she has now gone on and acquired her home, her profession, she's a doctor of pharmacy and she's just doing things right. she's planning out her life. she's gonna put 20 years into the federal government and after which she is going to be an entrepreneur by then she'd have been seasoned. Okay. Fine. My son now. He was still at home until recently. And then I guess there was an epiphany [00:14:00] and, realize with, of course, my gentle urgings that's now time that you leave. So he. He, and this was during the pandemic doc and I found this was rather interesting because you would have thought that during the pandemic, the whole, and for me too, I was happy he was home to believe it or not, but he found a way out, he was then telling your dad, I found an apartment.

[00:14:25] Wow, son, you didn't tell me about this. You're doing, maybe I could have helped you. Maybe I have some links, He did it himself. I was still apprehensive. So I spoke to my daughter and said, what do you think Kayla? And she said to me, dad is he's doing the right thing because when he goes out there and realizes that he will have to work to ensure that he eats and his rent is paid, it will happen Dad that trust me, I was still apprehensive though. I live to see today that my son has so many has sought his 40 hours is so packed. that I see it too. When do you [00:15:00] find time to sleep? He says, dad, I slept enough. I got work to do. 

[00:15:03] Moronke: [00:15:03] Oh my goodness.

[00:15:05] I said to myself, thank you, God. We had a little joke here while he was at home. I like to do my natural stuff. Have them drink some carrot juice would be a travesty. He called my sister, his sister, myself. He was saying, Oh, I'm at home blending, these kind of Jamaican concoction and all that kind of stuff. We are cracking up, go receipt. You drink that? He says, yes, I need it because I've got work to do.

[00:15:35] I need to keep my energy up. And I've been watching you all these years. 

[00:15:39] Irwine: [00:15:39] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. He's no cooking. Oh, we jr. You're cooking King. I love it. yes. To answer your question, I, there was a time if I were to win out, say we have a challenge with our generation, but no, I see some very bright strong-willed [00:16:00] intense young people who are doing some very good things.

[00:16:07] Some very good things. Yes. There are others who have challenges, but that also realize that as you would see again, there are some two that are late bloomers. there are some too that are late bloomers. And what is also happening is that there seemed to be a kind of a connection, a support system because you see, when my daughter said to me that he'd be all right. It meant that because what they were doing, they're communicating with each other. I was just going to say that you see, so there's that kind of support, but it's not the kind of support where here's a hundred dollars. Here's a hundred. No, is it support that says, Hey, you better get up off your butt and go do X, Y, Z.

[00:16:52] And when you do that, good things happen.  

[00:16:55] Moronke: [00:16:55] Are you seeing that same, behavior among youth in [00:17:00] Jamaica, that independence, or are you seeing a little bit of that "now" generation?  because you're on the ground pretty frequently. And they're watching American TV that they're watching the same media that our kids are watching or they, what kind of world are they living? Are they also living in that now, now world or are they still disciplined?

[00:17:23] Irwine: [00:17:23] No in that world. That is the globalization has provided them that platform. And coupled with that, the challenge that they would face. And are facing, is that of opportunities? the United States, a larger environment provides some more opportunities for young people, believe it or not in comparison to folks in Jamaica, Africa, or elsewhere. so you'll find that there's a little D both scenarios exist. There are persons who recognized too, that. That the most do for self. There are those who, of course, are not as aggressive, but many, times, the challenge that young people face and especially those who have equipped themselves with the hope of advancing is that the opportunities within the economy does not substantiate or providing that platform.

[00:18:22] So you find out that many are encouraged into the creative space. Where it's not, you go to universities or colleges to be in the legacy professions, but more so the creative, where the world becomes your oyster. you can stay in Jamaica and earn income globally. how do you now, get into STEM? How do you get into the, again, I said a creative environment that calls for you to utilize the power of automation and the whole computerization and stuff like that. so those are avenues that you'll find the progressive young people getting [00:19:00] into entrepreneurship. yeah, the boutique industries, creatives, and providing and in the service sector. so those are areas that young people would find attractive and allows them to globally roam yes. 

[00:19:20] Moronke: [00:19:20] Okay. so that brings me to another question here, because, regardless of what's going on here, this is in the US is still where the opportunities are. Yes. And, countries like Jamaica pretty much, focused on that tourism industry that doesn't provide, as you said, the STEM opportunities and all those wonderful, things that we're looking for. Do you, based on an I'm jumping a little ahead of where I thought I was going to go here. I'm looking at the whole. Black lives matter movement that we've seen here. And that has taken root in, internationally, I [00:20:00] should say. So you're seeing this new awakening of youth recognizing their power and their, their, and their voice. Let's say strengthen unity and strengthen unity. Do you see that as having an impact on Jamaica in terms of looking beyond its very limited tourism industry?

[00:20:21]the tourism industry is. critical for Jamaica. It's also a big one. but it's not resilient. It certainly isn't till we see that with the pandemic. And it certainly is, as I think that you were saying here, it's not enough for young people because it doesn't give them those opportunities that they would find, elsewhere. Do you see this? and I'm not quite sure. If the young people in Jamaica have been as vocal, recently as we're seeing, around the world. But do you think that this, that folks in Jamaica at the governmental level [00:21:00] are listening and are they paying attention or are they aware that change is imminent?

[00:21:07] And when young people come together, They're going to have to, they're going to have to do something. is that a sense that you're, that you get there right now 

[00:21:17]Irwine: [00:21:17] all right. and sell, and points. and even when I look at Jamaica and I speak of Jamaica, speak of the Caribbean, because, it's a similar.

[00:21:26] Expectation and some situations, I think government are aware of that. One of the, I think one of the tools, the ammunition that government has right now to one would say, I wouldn't want to say quell, but limit the type of. overt activities would have seen in a summer here of the Black Lives movement, the situation is that the economy at times and the challenge for scarce [00:22:00] resources also sometimes play a role in how you destabilize certain activities.

[00:22:07] Yeah. And to some extent, I think it has. Been utilized to do such, young people have a reason. but there's also what the, one of the by-products of that scenario is also narcissism, the individual and the fittest of the fittest survive. There are some times it is observed as a tendency where one will elbow the next person to get ahead. When you have that kind of mentality in certain quarters, it does not bode well for any kind of unified approach to the singular, attack because, it's basically the same enemy, but. it's been attacked individually instead of collective. and I think that the system in [00:23:00] place encourages singular attack as opposed to unified attack was certainly bring about the kind of change.

[00:23:10]The singular attack would be encouraged and supported by that. Status quo because it doesn't bring about change in the way that would cause them to lose their power. it just disrupts things just a little bit.

[00:23:23]you're disrupted to keep disrupting it. You're pushing it up. However, though, in all situations we know there's a boiling point and sooner or later, and I think governments have to realize that and start to put in place. certain sectors are support certain mechanisms that would allow for that exhaling meaning opportunities for a young person to go forth. the pandemic. Has been, has been one such asset because the pandemic has impact all stratas of society. Everyone is suffering, except, of course, those who can prevail in their ivory towers. All right. And so that in itself has become a destabilizing factor that would probably neuter any kind of aggressiveness towards the system.

[00:24:14] And the thing you look in a singular way in a singular way. Okay. All right. now, I think also too, that young folks, there are some very progressive young folks and you're absolutely correct. The tourism industry. Largely one could argue is a subservient system, you serve. All right.

[00:24:33] And, it's, it is near as what? 60% of our GDP. It's a number that's weaponized to project whatever message you want at any given time. But is a significant total and it trickles down, it impacts several sectors. And several sectors that it impacts also causes some young people in an environment where they in their whole agricultural upline, or when I say [00:25:00] upline add value or in the presentations of crafts and the presentations of services, et cetera. They're impacted there too. And with that, not being at a stand. So there's a search on now for. Alternatives. and this is where I think young people will be critical in that endeavor. I've said when I've seen government put together these blue-ribbon commissions to look at the future of Jamaica going forth, and you look at these makeup and who is, who are on it. These are people who still send messages for instantaneous response through emails. What I mean by that is that you need to have the young folks. Who have, who after know and have a clear understanding as to what they will require.

[00:25:52]What was the communication vehicle? Yes. And any success of any nation will be in your [00:26:00] methodologies or in communication. 

[00:26:03] Moronke: [00:26:03] Do you think they don't know this or do you think this is part of, this is part of the strategy. We can say we asked them, but we didn't get a response or is it that they just don't know?

[00:26:15] Irwine: [00:26:15] A little bit of both. it's semantics and at any, given Tom, who's asking a question in what situations you're in and what is it, what is the circumstances that is more important at any particular time nations that have to make decisions based on what is more important know and spend more time doing that, then thinking about future, it's like another vernacular here. Hand to mouth mentality. In other words, it's about eating tonight. tomorrow we'll come. I gotta deal with eating tonight. Many of our Caribbean nations are in those positions right now of African nations to the world, placed them there. And some will say that it would [00:27:00] have been bad management.

[00:27:02] Yes, political and other. and we can't just sit back and say, it's the other guy who caused it. we are really the architect of this. And so the hard decisions have to start. Now. and I go back and I said, these commissions that are put together most have young people on it.

[00:27:19] Most of people were thinking as if there's no box because young people don't think as if there's a box. they think. And that there is no box, right? Everything is possible. Yes. Yes. It's not a matter of thinking outside the box. There's no box. That's a good way of looking at it. I liked that there's no box, So when you tell me, I'm thinking outside the box, it, you still have a box. There's no box and that's the approach that we have to take going forth. So I have had situations with folks. Young people and those in a status quo who will criticize and say, tourism is important. We need to bring it back. I don't know when you say, bring it back. [00:28:00] Yeah, we need to have it, but I don't think we can bring it back because what you're talking about bringing back is to what it used to be. It will never be what it used to be. The world has changed. The world has changed. You understand me? So what we're saying now is that we're at the cusp. Just as a, we went through sugar when sugar was King. When we went to banana, when banana was King, we could say, box in, box out. We moved on tourism is one of those legacy  too. Butt it will be part of the mix.  But it cannot allow it to be. The more significant part of the mix because our history here has taught us that it is not resilient. It is susceptible to too many factors that we have no control over. So young people get to be in the mixed mix as to where we go from here. What is that? What is that new revolution, industrial revolution. What will it be? so you find all that young folks are now fastly [00:29:00] getting into the whole situation or environment and what the world will be for the future. And I'm very happy to, and glad to see that happening. 

[00:29:08] Moronke: [00:29:08] So do you think that the, you're talking to them now about doing this. Are they getting it? Are these status quo people getting it? Because it's one thing to tell them, do they know what they have to do and how to do this?

[00:29:25] Yeah. If it's one thing, you have to set up a forum to educate them on this. 

[00:29:31] Irwine: [00:29:31] It's a plethora of things. rightfully It's a plethora of things. The Erwins too need to be guided because remember, I'm still of the retro world and, we too are trying to understand. We recognize that there has to be changed, but we don't necessarily have the solution. We have to be just in a role to facilitate that dialogue. Making sure it's taking place and supporting the resolve. If we're [00:30:00] still putting herself up as leadership for this process we're in trouble.  I guess that was my next question is that is the fact that it really is until we stepped back, and put the word step a step aside.

[00:30:13] Yeah. I, some people don't like step aside because it means like you're gonna. curl in a corner and die. that's really not what it is because you see your wisdom or wisdom will always be important. yes. It is our wisdom, but the heavy lifting, the moving of the brick to the next corner, that's not for us anymore. We don't take too long to move it. These guys can have been robots to do that. 

]Moronke: [00:30:38] and I got to tell you that for me, with the whole, black lives movement, even, initially when it started a few years ago, there were, concerns and so forth.

[00:30:47]these young people have really stepped forward. And I think a lot of them took us by surprise. Yes, because of the way that they handled this. and it, we literally had to step aside [00:31:00] and they used all the wisdom. That we had given and put out that from earlier to actually channel this into, who could believe into an international movement.

[00:31:10] So I'm in awe. of our young people and I have older kids too, and I'm forever, digging into that knowledge, questioning them. And I am always surprised at the answers that come back because they know so much more. And then we actually give them credit for exactly. 

 Irwine: [00:31:28] Exactly. See, you see the point is this as that point. Oh, too many. Do you realize that's so many of the achievements that black lives move management, offered they're there empowerment processes have done over the summer that this w the spirit of politics in this country, we could never find any kind of legislative consensus to effectuate some  of the things that has happened?

]Moronke: [00:31:55] And that's why I said I'm in awe because there was no way that you could have [00:32:00] found if you would arrive there. 

 Irwine: [00:32:01] That's right. When you see corporate America and yes, it's a pittance. When you see corporate America come up and saying, they're putting up billions of dollars to do this. You hear Jaime diamond from JP Morgan saying all these things. Do you think any legislation. Out of Washington could have moved those guys to do those things. Now, there you go. Yeah. is it sufficient? No, but it's a start.

Moronke: [00:32:24] It's a start and I think too, I think again, what excites me is their energy. Yeah. it's their energy, it's that feeling of, we're not going back. let you know, as you said, we can build, build up tourism, but it's not going to be what it used to be because we're not going back. No, we're moving forward. And I think for me, that's the excitement, that they're leading, that they're leading that future.

 Irwine: [00:32:49] And here's the part that I think. is it causes vexation amongst the status quo and many of us. But then if you look back at [00:33:00] history, you will also realize too, that these United States and the entitlement that white people have in this country did not come by persons sitting down and saying, okay, you get that, I get this. No, there was Looting, shooting mayhem, burnings and disenfranchisement. Let's not forget that. , Now, that is not to say that. Erwin Claire finds excuses for folks who will do commit illegal acts.  But, I also have to bring to your attention that this country I've set the precedent. I am not supporting looting and shootings and stuff like that, but I also understand the history of this country. so those would have gone through that process to get what they have now. Are now saying that folks who go out and demonstrate in an [00:34:00] amicable ways, and there's some minority that will do stuff, but they use the minority activities to marr the positive. To cancel it out. Yes. Most remember that what they have today as entitlements and rights and whatever did not come by, just. Sitting down and being civil. It came by what we just spoke on. Yeah. And that is the part that, yes, we'll find some disfavor, even amongst us to doc, because let's not kid ourselves that even amongst the black community, some of us have arrived but are not yet awoke.

[00:34:47] All right. I did have a right. And as they have a re a right, they have also put up barriers to protect them within the confines of the masses environment. [00:35:00] And sometimes do not see from a pragmatic perspective, why the others in the fields were working and toiling. Would want to achieve as well, because some of they're just blocked off. And I think that's where, the whole challenge will be faced going forward. Hold that process is managed.

Moronke: [00:35:23] Is there a country in the Caribbean who's doing, a better job of. This in terms of incorporating, youthful perspective into governance is there a particular Caribbean nation that you've seen doing this?

Irwine: [00:35:38] It's hard to say. I know Jamaica has a good program. lots of work being done there. I think Barbados, Barbados have a very progressive prime minister in Mia Motley, who. Who, recognizes her responsibility and what the nations of the Caribbean should be doing in a unified way. those are two [00:36:00] countries that comes to that jumps out at me. When I look at the certain little shows of the world, The Bahamas of the world even hate his leadership of the world. And of course, Jamaica, they have fallen into that Trump zone. That these are the countries that if a policy that the United States want to get pushed, these are the countries that they are called, as opposed to the Barbados, Trinidad st. Vincent and the Grenadines because that troublemakers right. In other words, they do not tool the line. 

Moronke: [00:36:35] It was very interesting though. we talk about Barbados, but betas recently told the queen. yeah. Yes. I fell off my chair. yes, indeed. That would be the last nation I thought would do that.

[00:36:48] That's what we say. So I think you're right. I'm putting her on the list there of saying, Hey, changes, changes of foot here. let's talk a little bit about, [00:37:00] Kamala Harris, first woman, first Jamaican, first black, first Indian first, everything vice-president. does I should say congratulations to order?

[00:37:16]yes. Yes. does Caribbean representation. matter,  in the election of Kamala Harris?

[00:37:25] Irwine: [00:37:25] you asked me about where I was from and I told you about those persons who come from that little neck of the woods. her father is from St. Ann as well. So time is a powerful, wow. I just have to do, I just have to been born here, but anyway, they asked the question you asked. It can be answered from several factors here. Kamala Harris is born here in the United States. She is a United States citizen by birth. She is of immigrant parentage, Indian and Jamaica.

[00:38:03] And in the scheme of things, that probably is not as significant in the total scheme of things, but for the individual connections to the immigrant communities they are significant. In other words, those two factors are not, you're in America. We all know it's a melting pot. We come from someplace. All right. But for the communities that live here, it is a Clarion call. It is, a success story. It is, it is good imagery for us as people, especially our numbers are so insignificant in the total. Cause we can't place anybody in the white house political scene. All right. But the point is that it is good motivation. it is a feel-good that you're, you as a, as an immigrant, come here, you work hard, which we do. We didn't come here for the sand and the beach. We came here to work hard to make this country better. And in, so doing our children better. In a better position than we are. That is the mantra of the immigrant dream to make our children's lives better off than our own. That is the mission. So mission accomplished when we can have a child born of immigrant background. And I don't mean immigrant coming out of Ellis Island, but. Today's in regards to the ones who are from, pardon? My French here. S H I T whole country. Yep. All right. Who are now in the white house. That's is not only symbolic. It is significant and it tells us it is a call to order to our community that hard work pays off. Absolutely. That is it. and I'll hastily say this Erwin Claire and many others, we're not [00:40:00] looking for vice president Harris to do something specifically for us.

[00:40:05] No. We recognize her role as vice president of the United States of America, of which we are a part of. It is a good motivator for us though, because it means that we will continue to go out and produce more Kamala Harrises and who knows next to our president because our children can become president. That's what it really says. 

Moronke: [00:40:28] so was there any celebration out in Jamaica? Right, I heard there was some celebration. 

[00:40:34] Yeah. I saw that. In fact, when I saw that one, I flashed in my friends in Jamaica. Did you have any, but said that the whole pandemics and stuff for the stuff, because, we're a nation that loves to party, but with curfews and all of that, it would have tamed it. But I think at some point though, there will be that opportunity for us. But I tell you in Brooklyn and all over the place,  people were out doing their stuff.  I listened to my pastor this morning at Lennox Road Baptist church. And he said he was caught up in the euphoria too. And he was out tooting his horn.

[00:41:12] I love it. And so yes, we are excited. but we, again, I stress she is. This is how Barack Obama was not the president for black people. Who's a president of the United States. And I say that because it comes with a certain decorum, expectation and the responsibility to the peoples of the United States.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who thought that it really should have been a bigger focus on black people, as opposed to, that broader, as you said, and I agree with it. 

Irwine: [00:41:44] Yeah. Yeah. But you see what and I say that tongue and cheek too, because within that realm it is our expectation that's somebody's issues that are germane to us as a society will be. Yes, because when I look at the role [00:42:00] that, Congressman Clyburn played and you would have heard the president-elect, identified the group pins as critical to where he is today. I am also hopeful that some of the issues that we need to be addressed will be addressed, but I'm also cognizant that there'll also be challenges in the legislative process, but there are low hanging fruits.  It can be dealt with and dealt with quickly. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 

Moronke: [00:42:29] so pushing that a little bit further, you are co-founder and manager of, Caribbean immigrant services.

 Irwine: [00:42:36] Yes. 

Moronke: [00:42:37] And you've been doing that for a number of years and you've been involved in citizenship. So you've been. really at the center of, the current president is very tough immigration. I say tough perhaps cruel immigration policies. how have those policies affected, Jamaicans?

[00:42:58] We know how it's affected [00:43:00] Muslims. we know how it's affected Africans. there was one very recently that said. They can only come here on two-year visas for education, which is the most ridiculous thing, because it's almost like saying you can't come here because most people are coming in for a four-year degrees. How those policies affected Jamaicans or people from the Caribbean because you probably see everybody not just Jamaicans. 

Irwine: [00:43:28] Th the whole immigration policy has had a tremendous impact on all avenues for legalization is now limited avenues for persons coming with certain, with the skillsets.

[00:43:40] Although the United States wants to do their immigration via a process called cherry-picking, meaning that they only look at their, the reddest cherries and fill them in. Yeah. and even in, even that scenario, the stubbornness and the toxicity. And the anger towards immigrants [00:44:00] have even shut that door.

[00:44:01]So you'll find that, it's not just a sales situation as the doors basically locked, but the very ingredient for America to be good and continue to be good. Is being locked up. 

[00:44:14] Moronke: [00:44:14] And I think that's important to say that's important to note, because I think when a certain segment of this society looks at these policies, they see it as being focused on refugees, but it really isn't. It is what you're saying the whole, Avenue for immigrants legal immigration. 

[00:44:31]Irwine: [00:44:31] yes. has been essentially the door has been essentially one of the things is that we were caught up with the border and what was taking place there. All right. And I don't let, to use the term illegal immigration, but those who are undocumented.

[00:44:47] We were caught up with that scenario. But as we were caught up with a scenario and re back in the day, there were two executive orders that were passed. The one that we became that became obvious sources about the Muslim ban right [00:45:00] place at the border. But what was also taking place was that there was also an executive order, which was basically stating that America would tighten up its internal borders.  And by that, they mean that the border patrol officers no longer were confined to the borders of the United States and foreign nations, but bothers within the United States. so therefore it, no place an attack, not only on those ones are lawfully present, but also legal immigration. Those trying to enter the country through the processes that have been established in the US immigration act.

[00:45:39] So they have defunded the benefits side of immigration and shifted the funds to the enforcement side. That is why the immigration and customs enforcement ice has more prominence. No. to the extent that they could have the audacity to say that ice. Ice [00:46:00] agents would also have been involved in overseeing the elections.

[00:46:03]Another part of the intimidation process that they'll be doing similar ice raids in sanctuary cities, which is actually taking place. we just don't hear about it because the media is so focused on other things So on all of this now tempers back to illegal immigration, the whole curtailing of family reunification. the president's wife was, came into the United States through many processes, know that they are locking down, that they have locked off the same processes, the same process that the president's wife parents came in. All right. so here we have a situation that it's not about me. It' locks out those city lockouts those folks, but not only that, the immigration policies too are skewed against immigrants of color. so we must not forget that when the president was running and he was asked to present [00:47:00] his 10 point plank on immigration, there was one particular aspect in there that I picked out and I've been arguing from day one.

[00:47:09] And in that wasn't a big issue. He said that in their world, They want to resort back to the immigration act of 1965 and prior goes where the times with immigration were skewed towards Europe and other countries where like off the map. And it is the same thing that they have continued with these executive acts because, if he were to have been reelected, Stephen Miller, who is his arch immigration appoint person, his Czar, his immigration, they already knew executive orders that would now seek to do more harm. And that would include making the whole path to [00:48:00] citizenship. More difficult, eliminating birthright. Wow. And other aspects of the law that pertains to legal migration. So yes, this country that has been built on the backs of immigrants, now saw an administration that wanted to rewrite history. 

Moronke: [00:48:23] Do you see a change with this?

 Irwine: [00:48:25] Yes. Yes. in fact, we were taken aback by that election cycle, of course, that has been consumed with the crew and a virus has had not allowed for other issues of pertinence to this country to be articulated and debated. but vice-president. Biden did indicate that in his first hundred years, a hundred days, a hundred days, it was his, intent to place an immigration bill in Congress.

[00:48:53] The challenge of course, was that, is that we need to win. We need to have control of the Senate. Yes. [00:49:00] But at a minimum though, he also said that his administration would do what is necessary to preserve the legality of the existence of or 800,000 dreamers. So at a start that's important because right now the dreamers are perilously placed because they are being set up for deportation by denying renewals of certain documents that they wish that they need to remain a certain, I think the second circuit court has put a halt. But again, these things need to be removed from the court's decision-making process. 

Moronke: [00:49:37] So are some of the major beneficiaries of, of this change in government? All of us were believed that we were all on the precipice of something. Oh yes. We're all going to fall off this cliff. and that was, clear that a lot of these dreamers were on the verge of been abandoned.

Irwine: [00:49:54] And these are persons who are significant contributors. To the economics of this country, [00:50:00] 

]Moronke: [00:50:00] we've been talking for a long time, but I wanted you to talk to me a little bit.  just a couple of questions, so when you go on these speaking engagements, what are you telling young people that they can pick up, from listening to you hear what's, what are you telling them? 

Irwine: [00:50:11] the whole aspect of how you perceive your, the opportunities. and not to look for things to be given to you, you have to chart your course, you have to recognize that and especially to immigrant young people of their parents are immigrants that. Yeah. I heard somebody once said that, a typical Jamaican said, I don't have a retirement package and I have no 401k or annuities because my children are my insurance policy. And what they meant by that is that they will put every last, the dollar that they have into their child's education. There are parents, immigrant parents. Who don't have a bank account because [00:51:00] every dime has been invested in their children. And it's not that they're looking for them to give back to them, but they want to make sure that they have all they have to succeed. so with that being said is to bring those sometimes.

[00:51:14] So to remind them of those situations that their parents toiled. Weren't hard for them to sacrifice, to be where they are. It's not up to you to take it to the next level, and so we, the whole aspect of volunteerism, that's a passionate subject for me and I, when I go back and I speak to students, And we take gifts for our students, whether it be computers or robotic kits or stuff at the start.

[00:51:50] I always remind you. Yeah, I don't have a child that goes to this school. I won't have a child that will go to this school. I'm probably even know [00:52:00] more family members. So I really don't have a, my umbilical cord is not tied that I have to do. What I am doing is because I choose to do right. Do not abuse it, but at the same token, you'll have a responsibility to take this Baton and run your lap to the best of your abilities and make sure when you hand off the Baton, you're hand off the Baton with some room for your, the next move, to be made, where you're improving in order to run the race. because you see, when I look at many of our organizations today, and this is a ongoing conversation, is how do we provide a pathway for young people to become, to be integrated into the flow of things in order for the organization to be sustainable? There are too many of our organizations where [00:53:00] the average age is 50. Not good. All right. Or sixties, not good. We must make sure that we're not being blockers, and young people must also realize too, that volunteerism is good. Volunteerism means that it's a methodology of assuring that your community is become sustainable and survives. It cannot always be about me, me. It cannot always be about what I can get, but what I can give in order for somebody else to get. And in the process, you will be satisfied because see, I look back at this election here and I go back to what we do at a Caribbean Immigration Services back in the early days and we were encouraging many nationals, become citizens and our voters.

[00:53:58] The thousands of persons who were [00:54:00] impacted would have been part of this whole process. . It has to make you feel good. Let me say we did a, we did a, we were reflecting and people are calling and saying it's because of what was happening back then, where I'm a citizen and I'm voting in it. And they're already, the new voters were saying I was standing in line because I like to vote on election day, I'm just like that. and, And, people realize, thank you, Mr. Clear. I have my citizenship and they were all excited about voting. I am. That's why I said to you earlier, I'm a Richmond. Yeah. Aye. It's clear. It's clear. Yes. Oh yes. Yeah. That makes me feel when I go into a program tonight, we'll be talking about elections and I can tell you, we feel elated. bought the F not about on the victory, but that people were able to participate and they weren't just sitting on their green cards or doing anything. They went off and become citizens and they voted. And also we say to people, you must also have skin in the game. [00:55:00] You must support your candidate.

[00:55:05]All right. You must support. Or we use examples from time to time, let these young people to know that when you support your candidate, you have access to your candidate because there always be that time when you need it, some support from the federal government to do something who do you call? You must know who you call and where you're calling because you're in a position of strength to do part of it, part of the whole civic responsibility and that's what we preach to our youngsters civic responsibilities. No, I appreciate that. that's one where we have fallen behind, over the years and one where, and volunteerism is at the heart of it.

[00:55:47] I, not just, you. it has value, not just to the community, but also I think too to the individual too, because of that learning right. They're learning and they're networking at [00:56:00] time. Yeah. Yeah. Ah, networking is an Avenue to expose yourself and to be made known. 

Moronke: Yeah, exactly. wait, it builds character. It builds it. Absolutely central. It builds character. That is key. Wow. I've had you talking for an hour. Really appreciate it. This has been really good. you've given me not just the flavor of Jamaica, but you've, we've stretched that to some of the islands too, which is wonderful. And, I hope that you'll be able to come back and talk to us again thank you.